User Setting: Hard Mode

This idea is for the “90% is not enough” crowd: a User setting that changes your competed Node percentage from 90% of the Nodes on a Street to 100% … Streets don’t get marked as ‘complete’ until you run 100% of its Nodes.

This idea stems from the Node Hunter feature, because some people didn’t like that it limits the displayed Nodes to those attached to uncompleted Streets.

Vote on this topic if you like the idea.
Also, let me know if you have any questions about it, or ideas on how it would be better for you.

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As you mentioned in the Node Hunter thread, I prefer to see any incomplete nodes and keep the completed at 90%, but pumping up the difficulty to 100% is an acceptable challenge for me, let’s do it!

Intriguing
some complex? thoughts on this item

I am trying to run my city on this moment (being at 55%) and I am not thinking at the last 10% at this moment. I have noticed however that running is not 100% possible due to water, railways, forbidden area’s, buildings etc. I run/walk sometimes already strange places like soccer fields, atletics, fields, graveyards and even big stadiums (but that was easy while doing for instance the Amsterdam Marathon). There are also payed entrances like the Zoo and theatres, iceskating halls etc. So when i have finished my city in 2019/2020 I am going to look at the rest of the nodes and streets.
First I would like to flag out unrunnable nodes (don’t know at this moment how to do that)

So if you would like the scale to ‘harden’ I would recommend to introduce levels

level 1 would be as it is now: 90% of 90% of all objects in a 'city
then you should flags (per user!!!) nodes as: unrunnable/wrong, forbidden, paid
Then you could add levels so level2 would be 100% of all nodes of runnable objects
Level 3 could be 100% of alle runnable and paid objects etc.
The highest level would be including forbidden area’s
(you can run them sometimes because you can enter the area or come close to it or by special events like Monument day, open gardening day, open towerday etc.)

But maybe this would be to complex but more of a game then actually running :smile

Level 9: the nuclear power plant …

2 Likes

I agree with p.gomes, atm I love the node hunter feature because it’s highlight that an area of my city I thought was complete still has a lot of work to do. But it’s just as important for me to tackle untouched areas/roads too until I get to around 75% of my city.

The one issue that has never sat comfortable with me is that someone can ‘complete’ 100% of the city but effectively only run 90% of it.
In theory if every street had 10 nodes they wouldn’t need to bother with 1 in 10 of them.

1 Like

Blockquote, sorry forgot :slight_smile:

I would like to only see the nodes that for uncompleted streets. However, for me it seems to show any uncompleted nodes, even if it is within a >90% nodes completed street. Do I have the 100% hard mode on without knowing it or am I otherwise mistaken?
Like p.gomes, first i want to get to all possible runnable streets and maybe after that, try and hit all the possible nodes. With all the water here that is considered a street I may have to pick up swimming as well :slight_smile:

Strongly opposed until there is some sort of moderation feature where we can edit streets to remove bad nodes. I have carefully gotten all the accessible nodes on many streets and the remaining ones are inaccessible without trespassing, bushwhacking, swimming, jumping barbed wire fences, walking on highways, etc. And I am not afraid to do mild forms of trespassing :wink:

The 90% is necessary as long as the street database remains flawed. In the cases of inaccessible nodes I always mention them when flagging the street, but we need to be able to fix them (e.g. an option to flag individual nodes as inaccessible rather than flagging a street)! I know many of us would happily volunteer our time to clean the data in locations we are familiar with. OR this could be done automatically–if your database shows that 100% of nodes were covered by the users, then that street could be bumped up to 100% criteria (although if someone hit a node from bad GPS data this could still be an issue).

I don’t worry about ‘cheating’ by hitting 90%, ultimately the LifeMap proves whether users did the work to get all the odds and ends or not. If there is a ‘tie’ at 100% then the tiebreaker could be total nodes completed.

4 Likes

Couldn’t have said it better

I also agree with joejoezz. Some nodes are impossible to reach (ie. Swimming the Hudson river in NYC- LOL). The 90% threshold is not ideal, but gives a little flexibility. By the way, thanks for all that you do James.

3 Likes

I would love the option to show the incomplete nodes for completed streets as well if it’s possible. I think maybe it started out that way and too many people didn’t like it, but I liked seeing them all and picking them up when/if I could. Especially now that my only incomplete streets are way on the edge of town or unsafe to walk during the day because of traffic, I often don’t have time to drive out to the incomplete streets! At least I can feel like I’m making progress by picking up the other incomplete nodes on completed streets! By the way James, I never did say THANK YOU for this great feature. I love it so much! It’s helped especially pick up those nodes of streets that aren’t actually there anymore!

Hi there,
I would like to add an opinion to this discussion.

I understand the issue about the non-accessible nodes and therefore the 90% are needed to have some streeta completed. In my city this is absolutely not a problem though. I have only run a third so far, but the only nodes that I missed, were

  • corners of big places
  • side streets with a dead end that I accidentally skipped
  • building corners that are wrongly marked as street
  • bus stops on main streets that are grouped with side streets that have the same name

All these nodes are accessible without danger or breaking the law. So the 90% is more or less useful depending on the city you are running. In my case it is absolutely not necessary. But the missed nodes are “painful”, especially if I could run them easily on my next run in the area, but I dont, because I have not noticed that I missed them.

As the node hunter also only shows missed nodes of incomplete streets, there is no (easy) way for me to find the missed nodes. I can only go to the completed-streets-list and check every single street by clickling “go” or “view” for missed nodes. That is a lot of manuel work. And I would also have to keep track of them outside of CS somehow.

If I could find missing nodes either with a hard mode setting as proposed here or with the node hunter in the lifemap, that would be awesome. Finding roads that are partly or fully incomplete is easy with the street list or simply on the life map. It’s the single nodes that are hard to find.

Hard mode as a user setting would not harm those, who need the 90% due to inaccessible nodes. They could just keep their 90%. But it would still be a big benefit for others.

People who want and can get the “true” 100% could alternatively use the node hunter if it displayed also nodes of complete streets.

So I would very much appreciate one or the other. :grinning:

Best regards,
Inqu

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I’m kinda new. Didn’t know 90% was all it took. Seems like a fair number… Unless you turn on “perfectionist mode.” :smiley:

I like the idea of a little wiggle room, as I’d rather run new routes, not go after missed nodes… Though, to be honest, I have yet to mark a node manually.

Thank you all for an interesting read.

Eric

Sounds like you might have been doing a bit of “Tresmapping” if you havent marked anything manually :slight_smile:

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@dallas.devries Hi Dallas, I’m not sure what you mean by “tresmapping”? Not sure how it applies to (me) not marking nodes manually.

Does it means to manually mark a node done, that you were nowhere near?

Anyway, doesn’t apply to me, as all my nodes are GPS. :slight_smile: And I think I will stay that way now that I learned of the 90% rule.

Thank you for introducing me to a new term!

Sincerely, Eric

Well if you have been mapping for any amount of time then you have run across roads/nodes on private grounds…hence coined tresmapping if you go for them anyways. Theoretically you just skip these and update OSM to mark them as private but some people here take things to extremes and even jump fences to get their nodes. I personally will run down private roads all the time but if there is a big “No Trespassing, violators will be prosecuted” type sign I usually skip it…

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@dallas.devries Thank you again Dallas. I haven’t resorted to tresmapping, yet. But I have started acquainting myself with OSM. Wow!

Now I suspect if I was missing a short, private, street, I just might do the node dash.

Cheers, Eric

2 Likes

No “tresmappping” on my runs so far. At least none that are obviously marked with signs or fences. As I said, accessibility seems not to be a problem in every city. :man_shrugging:

So having the option to change the needed percentage of streets is a way to consider local conditions. (and a way to satisfy the perfectionists :stuck_out_tongue:)

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Something that really bothers me is that sometimes, just by chance, I notice I have missed one or a few nodes. Especially for a longer street, with maybe over 50 nodes, if I have missed one or two, maybe a sidealley, it will show as Completed, and I have no way of knowing that it’s not really complete, other that if I use the Go button for this street, and find that I’m actually at 95% e.g. But that’s not something I do often… When I use node hunterit does not display these missed nodes.
What I’d really like is a simple way to find these missing nodes, because my goal is both the run all streets “in reality” and also to capture all nodes.
One way would be to be able to choose “strict counting” which would require 100% of nodes for a street to be marked Complete.
Another way could be that Node hunter should show all red nodes, regardless if the street is Complete or not.
Maybe there could be other solutions.
Thoughts?

1 Like