Discussing 'nested' cities

Yesterday’s walk: Lizzy Muggeridge's Activity on August 24, 2020 - CityStrides

Yeah, the count displays are confusing. :slightly_frowning_face: I need to clarify these…

It could be that you completed the street within the nested city (not counted), and not the parent city.

These are two separate streets. Take Ashley Road for example - you’ve completed this in London Borough of Islington England: Ashley Road - CityStrides and you have not completed this in Greater London England: Ashley Road - CityStrides

Yeah, only the parent city counts towards your overall count. You can still track your progress within nested cities in the same way, it’s just that the total street count for your CityStrides account is tied to the parent cities.

1 Like

But clicking on the Ashley Road link for Greater London brings up several different, unrelated Ashley Roads in completely different places? They just happen to have the same name!

Correct. There are many discussions about this if you search the forum for ‘same name’.

OSM has no concept of “street”, it only has a collection of Way records which are associated with a bunch of Node records. Each Way record can have a name, so I put together “streets” by joining up all the Way records that have the same name.
At the moment, that is only option that I have. I’m looking into methods of more accurately splitting things up, but I do not have a way to do this right now.

1 Like

Update regarding my post above about adding nested cities for Stockholm (Stockholms kommun, Stockholms län - CityStrides)

The new city districts have now been updated in OSM. So no complicated thing that reality doesn’t match OSM.

On OSM Stockholm municipality is admin level 7: Relation: ‪Stockholms kommun‬ (‪398021‬) | OpenStreetMap

These are the city districts of Stockholm that are on admin level 9 in OSM
Relation: ‪Bromma stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5689303‬) | OpenStreetMap Bromma
Relation: ‪Enskede-Årsta-Vantörs stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5695996‬) | OpenStreetMap Enskede-Årsta-Vantör
Relation: ‪Farsta stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5701014‬) | OpenStreetMap Farsta
Relation: ‪Hägersten-Älvsjö stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5691404‬) | OpenStreetMap Hägersten-Älvsjö
Relation: ‪Hässelby-Vällingby stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5690815‬) | OpenStreetMap Hässelby-Vällingby
Relation: ‪Kungsholmens stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5689375‬) | OpenStreetMap Kungsholmen
Relation: ‪Norrmalms stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5695412‬) | OpenStreetMap Norrmalm
Relation: ‪Rinkeby-Kista stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5730716‬) | OpenStreetMap Rinkeby-Kista
Relation: ‪Skarpnäcks stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5695432‬) | OpenStreetMap Skarpnäck
Relation: ‪Skärholmens stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5695372‬) | OpenStreetMap Skärholmen
Relation: ‪Spånga-Tensta stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5690852‬) | OpenStreetMap Spånga-Tensta
Relation: ‪Södermalms stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5691336‬) | OpenStreetMap Södermalm
Relation: ‪Östermalms stadsdelsområde‬ (‪5695415‬) | OpenStreetMap Östermalm

It would be really cool if these could be added as nested cities for Stockholm

I’ve seen something on my stats linked to nested cities and was unsure based on reading the forums if it is expected behaviour or not and my curiosity has got better of me.

Austhorpe has just jumped to the top of my personal leader board as I have done 2 out of 12 streets. Austhorpe, England - CityStrides

The only time I have run in this area was on a single activity when staying with family and I crossed through a few other nested parts of Leeds. For example I completed Butt Hill in Kippax

However when I go to the nested page that this street is on, despite it saying 4 striders at top of the page, there is noone listed below and when I go to the same street page, it is uncompleted

Is this purely because it is a historic activity the nested city hasn’t been classified as active or is it just a case of waiting for jobs to finish processing?

Also, while I’m here, could someone point me in the direction of the spreadsheet for requesting new nested cities as I am so close to completing my home town (I think) but so many roads are left uncompleted as there is another road with same name 30 miles away but in same parent region

Can Old St Mellons (Old St Mellons, Cymru / Wales - CityStrides) be nested in Cardiff (Cardiff, Cymru / Wales - CityStrides) please.

Thanks in advance.

1 Like

If the missing areas were added to OSM, would city strides automatically account for them?

Hi Oscar,

I believe they would be imported eventually. I noticed that Kirkliston had been added several months ago. Barnton, (not Cramond and Barton), also made an appearance but that was only for a short period. It may have been added to OSM then removed as I’m not sure if Barton on it’s own has a recognized boundary, or at least one that is used for official purposes these days.

Hi,
North York (North York, Ontario - CityStrides)
Etobicoke (Etobicoke, Ontario - CityStrides)
Scarborough (Scarborough, Ontario - CityStrides)
Should all be nested in Toronto (Toronto, Ontario - CityStrides)

Thank you!

Heya, just realised this was something you added. Sounds cool, great work. Could you do the same thing for Brussels?

Currently the admin_level=8 relations are used, which is nice, because the entire thing is a bit too big. I asked it to be that way at the time because it was either the one or the other. Now with these nested though, it would be nice to have both.

This is the admin_level=7 relation for Brussels https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2404020
The different parts of Brussels seem to currently be grouped into a region already Région de Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, België / Belgique / Belgien - CityStrides I dont know how you want to go about that. It’s Belgium, so it’s confusing :stuck_out_tongue: I imagine for the region you used the admin_level=4 one Relation: ‪Région de Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest‬ (‪54094‬) | OpenStreetMap ? So you’d have those 19 cities nested within a city for Brussels (relation 2404020) which in turn is (the only part of) the Brussels region. It sounds weird, but that really is the situation on the ground :sweat_smile:

Yeah, if this is the actual structure then I want CityStrides to reflect that. Here’s what I’m hearing - just to be sure I’m understanding things correctly:

  • The 4 Regions of Belgium in CityStrides are correct
    • I aim to have each country’s regions represent within that country what “states” represent in the US, where the organizational structure is Country → State → County (skipped in CityStrides) → City (where I don’t think much about the definition of “city” e.g. towns are cities because I don’t have time for this lol)
  • All of the existing cities, from admin level 8, are correct
  • One new city, Brussels-Capital at admin level 7, needs to be added to Région de Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest
  • Many existing cities in that region will need to be marked as nested within Brussels-Capital

Hi James

Your understanding is correct, but in your last line replace ‘many’ with ‘all’. Geographically speaking, the region Brussels is the same as the city Brussels. They both consist of the 19 underlying cities, listed here Région de Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest, België / Belgique / Belgien - CityStrides.

1 Like

Alright, I’ve added that: Brussel-Hoofdstad - Bruxelles-Capitale, Région de Bruxelles-Capitale - Brussels Hoofdstedelijk Gewest - CityStrides
Thanks for clarifying the nested situation @bas

It looks like some jobs are still running, so streets might still be getting added & progress is definitely not finished yet … this could take some hours.

3 Likes

For the global total, do you count the “mother city” or the nested cities within it?
For Brussels, the difference is 601 (5531 streets if you add up all the smaller units, and only 4930 if you take Brussels as a whole, disregarding the constituent parts). It might be explained by some streets running through several smaller units.

My global total decreased by ca. 900, which I assume means that you switched from summing up all the constituent parts to taking just the figure for the total. Is it correct? It does not explain all the decrease, but maybe the other disappearing streets are in the other nested cities (London? Budapest?).

It makes sense, but now my distance to the global Number 1 increased significantly - I was almost catching up :frowning:

Outside of activity pages, the stats around the site are based on the parent city.
It’s interesting that Brussels has fewer streets in its parent city than in its nested cities…

This is what is to be expected: if a street with the same name runs through several different subunits, then it counts separately in each of them, while only once for the parent city. What was surprising for me is how many of such streets there are in Brussels :-).
Thanks anyway for the explanation!

1 Like

:man_facepalming: right

1 Like

For Montreal, Canada we have:

Parent city: Montréal, Québec - CityStrides

Nested cities:
Westmount: Westmount, Québec - CityStrides
Montréal-Ouest: Montréal-Ouest, Québec - CityStrides
Côte-St-Luc: Côte-Saint-Luc, Québec - CityStrides
Hampstead: Hampstead, Québec - CityStrides

There’s also a bunch of other cities on the island of Montreal but I’m not sure if they would be considered as nested since they are not circled by streets of Montreal… (one side is water for most)
Montréal-Est: Montréal-Est, Québec - CityStrides
Dorval: Dorval, Québec - CityStrides
L’Île-dorval: L'Île-Dorval, Québec - CityStrides
Dollard-Des-Ormeaux: Dollard-Des-Ormeaux, Québec - CityStrides
Kirkland: Kirkland, Québec - CityStrides
Beaconsfield: Beaconsfield, Québec - CityStrides
Baie-D’Urfé: Baie-D'Urfé, Québec - CityStrides
Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue: Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, Québec - CityStrides
Senneville: Senneville, Québec - CityStrides

I think you have misunderstood the nested concept? This means there is one city, e.g. New York, but that also its sub-divisions (in this case boroughs) like Manhattan etc are listed as separate cities in CS. This means that e.g. Broadway is listed both in Manhattan and in New York.
As I’m looking in Wikipedia, Westmount is not a part of Montreal, it’s a separate city, so it’s not a nested city, just happens to be an enclave, surrounded completely by Montreal.
A nested city of Montreal could be an arrondissement like Verdun, but that will only happen if someone has set this up as different administrative levels in OSM, which does not seem to be the case

1 Like