Permissive vs. private streets

Recently signed up to OSM, and have a quick question regarding “correct” tagging:

In my city we have a sort of “outdoor museum” which has some “streets”. Since it’s a pay-to-enter place where it wouldn’t be appropriate to run, I’d like to tag these streets out of CityStrides. Would “permissive” be both correct, and remove them from CityStrides, or do I need to tag them as “private”?

Thanks!

I’m asking about this in the OSMUS Slack group: OpenStreetMap Chat
Can you share a link to one or two of the streets in question within CityStrides?

The end result of the conversation (assuming it doesn’t continue further) is that fee and/or toll would be helpful tags here.

If general public has no right to enter there, but is currently allowed then access=permissive (or foot=permissive vehicle=private ) would fit well.

access=permit is another option for the streets, but fee and/or toll sound particularly attractive, b/c general-purpose routers already know what to do w/ these tags (not sure about CityStrides however).

access=permit seems to be for cases where you need to acquire permit (not just buy a ticket), but place is still available to allmaybe access=customers ?

I’m happy to adjust my Overpass query to account for fee/toll tags.



Those are two examples :slight_smile:

No vehicles allowed in at all. Sounds like access=fee (if I’m reading your message right) would be both accurate, and something that can work with CityStrides.

Thank you!

Looks like I can add these filters to my Overpass query to remove all fee/toll roads.
['access' !~ 'fee'];
['access' !~ 'toll'];

:thinking: Just have to think about whether this will have adverse effects. I suppose it would be limited to foot-accessible (so, not a highway/interstate) roads that you have to pay to drive, but are perfectly free to walk. I can’t imagine there are many/any of these…

Someone else is chiming in that access=customers might be better.

It does have a wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dcustomers
whereas the toll & fee tags don’t (as far as I can tell)

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I don’t know if that would be an issue with things like American national parks and similar areas?

I’m accessing OSM from my browser (firefox), do you know if I need to add the fee tag in the “Allowed access” box, or if I can/should add it as a “free” (?) tag of access=fee?
My limited experience with OSM doesn’t help me with whether that would mess things up, or if it is possible to add several tags in that way.

I’m unsure :grimacing:
After reading the wiki for customers - https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dcustomers - I’m wondering if the tag is fee=yes
Ah, I found https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee
and https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:toll

I’ll update this post if/when people respond to my request for clarification

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Easy solution is to just pay the entrance fee, and log a walk in Den Gamle By :slightly_smiling_face:

I’ve done this with Frilandsmuseet, Tivoli and Zoo in Copenhagen.

I don’t like empty spaces in my map, so if i have to walk to get my purple lines, i will walk :smiley:

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@JamesChevalier :
I added the fee = yes.
Can that be added to the CityStrides code? It’s not in the Overpass, from what I can see.

@hjkiddk : But walking would mess with my SmashRun and Strava data :joy:

Won’t affect your stats if you log it as a walk, but it will still be synced with citystrides.

Not sure I see an answer about Foot=Permissive streets. In “Elmbridge” (which I have just got to 100% yeah!) there are quite a way “gated” estates. Not surprisingly these are marked as private on OSM and so generally do not have nodes on CS (apart from a few which marked as open access to all - by mistake which have corrected on OSM). Indeed some of these are always behind a locked gate - especially dead ends and clearly pricate. However there also quite a few “normal” streets where there is no permanent way to stop people entering and there always seems plenty of walkers and indeed runners making use of these streets - some of which actually allow you get “somewhere” as opposed to having to exit where you entered.

From some research I am starting to think that it might be prudent (and possible more accurate) to mark at least the ones that actually connect different entrances as foot=permissive on OSM. Would that actually technically allow them to appear in CS or is it only Foot=Yes ones that count?

Yesterday I covered almost 10K “ticking off” some of these streets in to at least look my Heat Map look more complete. They are ones to the south in my run yesterday where I did the one street I had left in Elmbridge. https://citystrides.com/activities/14849073 A half marathon for one street is a bit of a poor return :slight_smile: