# United Kingdom has some more cities at different levels **URL:** \ **Category:** Support\ **Created:** [September 30, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452 "2019-09-30T23:41:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:41pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/1 "2019-09-30T23:41:11Z")
I’ve merged some posts from another topic into this one. Basically, it seems like there are either some admin level choice issues on my part … or there are some select cities to include from other admin levels. ---
**Author:** ![stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/stewartharding1/32/387_2.png) [@stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/stewartharding1)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/2 "2019-09-27T18:58:54Z")
Thanks James! One question I have is now that my home city has been split into its constituent wards, does that mean there will no longer be an overall percentage for the whole city? ---
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/3 "2019-09-27T19:10:37Z")
Ah! So I may have grabbed the wrong admin level for Wales. I’ve got [United Kingdom](https://citystrides.com/countries/206) as the country, [Wales](https://citystrides.com/regions/776) as the Region, and then from my searching around it seemed like OpenStreetMap had cities organized in admin level 10. If you view the Data tab in [this page](http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/MFc), there’s a huge list of places. Do the names look like cities, or are they too small? Similarly, if you view the Data tab in [this page](http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/MFf), are these cities or counties? ---
**Author:** ![stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/stewartharding1/32/387_2.png) [@stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/stewartharding1)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/4 "2019-09-27T21:00:46Z")
Hmm, interesting. The first is probably the smallest defined areas and include villages, towns and suburbs/parts of cities. The second is the 22 Local Authorities of Wales (effectively the equivalent of counties). The tricky bit is that some cities such as Cardiff, Swansea and Newport are also Local authorities. So while this level works perfectly for Citystrides in bigger cities, someone living in Monmouthshire for example has an enormous area full of different towns and villages to complete. To be honest I’m not sure what would be a better one to go with, either hundreds (thousands?) of very small areas or 22 areas with most being almost impossible to complete. Happy to help and ask others here that use it! ---
**Author:** ![jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/u/jessp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/5 "2019-09-27T21:08:20Z")
Hi James, I think one of the problems with admin levels for the UK is that as Stewart said, they’re variable depending on the size of the city or town you’re looking at. For Wales, for example, admin level 6 is primarily counties (e.g. Carmarthenshire, which appears on your list of level 6 data) - but Carmarthen the town is at level 10, so that’s correct. However, the city of Cardiff (the capital) is at admin level 6, while admin 10 marks suburbs such as Roath. Same problem in England - London is at admin level 6 and the London boroughs are at level 8. York and Portsmouth (a small city on the south coast) are at level 6, Manchester, Winchester and Northampton are at level 8, and most towns are at level 10 (though some are at level 8). My personal inclination would lean towards using both level 8 and level 10, if that’s a possibility/realistic. While my home area is a level 8 borough, I think it’s a bit demotivating for others to complete their entire town and still be nowhere near completion due to also having to complete a bunch of other towns and villages. ---
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 9:15pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/6 "2019-09-27T21:15:53Z")
Ah, ok - that’s something I can (probably) work with. There are a few countries where each region has its own city admin level(s). If you check out the [Countries sheet in this doc](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xDKp4eifXFUmFK95ofqBcK6rDew5zxKjK9gvKo_IAmU/edit#gid=0) (I’m slowly porting this data over into the larger “Full Country/Region List” sheet). You’ll see Australia is a great example. The UK is down starting at row 257. It looks like I’ve already sectioned off some of those, but it sounds like some cities are outliers … Kind of like how New York City is the only thing in New York at admin level 5. Would it work out if everything at e.g. admin level 10 was brought into CityStrides _and_ I manually included one or two (or however many there are) of the admin level 6 things that made sense? If that’s the case, I’d just need to know which places in the lists below should exist in CityStrides. > **List of admin level 6 in Wales** > > Carmarthenshire > Pembrokeshire > City of Bristol > Ceredigion > Swansea > Neath Port Talbot > Bridgend > Vale of Glamorgan > Powys > Wrexham > Denbighshire > Flintshire > Gwynedd > Conwy > Isle of Anglesey > Newport > Monmouthshire > Cardiff > Torfaen > Blaenau Gwent > Caerphilly > Merthyr Tydfil > Rhondda Cynon Taf > **List of admin level 6 in England** > > Herefordshire > Suffolk > City of London > Hertfordshire > Norfolk > Rutland > Warwickshire > Wiltshire > Cornwall > City of Bristol > Worcestershire > Surrey > Kingston upon Hull > Northamptonshire > London > North East Lincolnshire > Somerset > Oxfordshire > Southend-on-Sea > Thurrock > Lincolnshire > North Somerset > Bath and North East Somerset > South Gloucestershire > Gloucestershire > Cumbria > Northumberland > County Durham > North Yorkshire > West Yorkshire > Lancashire > East Riding of Yorkshire > Greater Manchester > East Sussex > North Lincolnshire > Swindon > Windsor and Maidenhead > Bracknell Forest > West Sussex > Brighton and Hove > Wokingham > Reading > West Berkshire > Slough > City of Nottingham > Portsmouth > Southampton > York > Derby > Warrington > Halton > Merseyside > Blackpool > Blackburn with Darwen > Middlesbrough > Redcar and Cleveland > Stockton-on-Tees > Hartlepool > Darlington > Cheshire East > Cheshire West and Chester > Isle of Wight > Tyne and Wear > Medway > Isles of Scilly > Luton > Bedford > City of Peterborough > Central Bedfordshire > Torbay > City of Leicester > Stoke-on-Trent > Telford and Wrekin > Shropshire > Kent > Milton Keynes > Buckinghamshire > Hampshire > Cambridgeshire > Essex > Nottinghamshire > Leicestershire > Plymouth > Devon > Derbyshire > Staffordshire > Monmouthshire > Dumfries and Galloway > West Midlands Combined Authority > Kent > Middlesex > Surrey > Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole > Dorset > **List of admin level 6 in Scotland** > > Orkney Islands > Highland > Argyll and Bute > Moray > Dumfries and Galloway > Aberdeen City > Aberdeenshire > Stirling > Fife > Glasgow City > North Ayrshire > West Lothian > Perth and Kinross > Scottish Borders > West Dunbartonshire > East Ayrshire > South Ayrshire > North Lanarkshire > East Dunbartonshire > Clackmannanshire > Falkirk > City of Edinburgh > East Lothian > Midlothian > Angus > Dundee City > East Renfrewshire > Inverclyde > Renfrewshire > South Lanarkshire > Na h-Eileanan Siar > Shetland Islands > **List of admin level 6 in Northern Ireland** > > County Tyrone > County Fermanagh > County Antrim > County Armagh ---
**Author:** ![jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/u/jessp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/7 "2019-09-27T23:04:45Z")
It’s more than one or two, but for England, I’d include the following from admin level 6: > **Level 6** > > City of London > City of Bristol > Kingston upon Hull > Southend-on-Sea > Thurrock > Bath and North East Somerset > Swindon > Windsor and Maidenhead > Bracknell Forest > Brighton and Hove > Wokingham > Reading > Slough > City of Nottingham > Portsmouth > Southampton > York > Derby > Warrington > Halton > Merseyside > Blackpool > Blackburn with Darwen > Middlesbrough > Redcar and Cleveland > Stockton-on-Tees > Hartlepool > Darlington > Medway > Isles of Scilly > Luton > Bedford > City of Peterborough > Torbay > City of Leicester > Stoke-on-Trent > Telford and Wrekin > Milton Keynes > Plymouth > Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole The others are counties encompassing a number of separate cities, towns and villages. There are also some cities at level 8, just to make things more awkward. > **Level 8** > > Birmingham > Bradford > Cambridge > Canterbury > Carlisle > Chelmsford > Coventry > Exeter > Gloucester > Lancaster > Leeds > Leicester > Lichfield > Lincoln > Liverpool > City of London > Manchester > Newcastle upon Tyne > Northampton > Norwich > Oxford > Peterborough > Preston > Salford > Sheffield > St Albans > Sunderland > Wakefield > City of Westminster > Winchester > Wolverhampton > Worcester Additionally, the London Boroughs are all at level 8, with the exception of the City of London which is level 6. That took a lot more research than I’d expected and likely more work for you than is at all reasonable. But may as well share it, having educated myself if nothing else 😆 Edit: I think the shorthand version was yes, that sounds like a plan that could work well. ---
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/8 "2019-09-30T23:46:45Z")
I’m unsure if my topic merging alerted you @stewartharding1 & @jessp so I want to post again here to make you aware that I’ve split this conversation out into its own thread. It looks like @jessp helped collect some missing cities at the admin level 6 & 8. I _think_ that all the cities in admin level 8 should already be in CityStrides. I think at this point, I still need help collecting the full list of admin level 6 places to include in CityStrides. > Additionally, the London Boroughs are all at level 8, with the exception of the City of London which is level 6. A similar thing happens for New York City, and the consensus over there is that they would like the Boroughs present in CityStrides _as well as_ the full NYC. How do you feel about London & its Boroughs? ---
**Author:** ![jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/u/jessp)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/9 "2019-10-01T06:01:25Z")
Hi James, For London: I think the boroughs should certainly stay. I think it would be good to have London as a whole available too, although running all 50,000 ish streets isn’t necessarily something I’d want to take on myself 😆 I didn’t think to mention this before, but _London_ as in the entirety of London encompassing all boroughs is at level 6 [Relation: ‪London‬ (‪65606‬) | OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/65606). However, _City of London_ is a city of its own at the centre of London and is also at admin level 6. [Relation: ‪City of London‬ (‪51800‬) | OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/51800) - I only just noticed that it isn’t in CityStrides any more. There were quite a few people who were close to completing it - I’d imagine they’d be keen to see it back. I can have a look at the other admin level 6 areas you listed tomorrow and get back to you on that. ---
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/10 "2019-10-01T13:03:59Z")
LOL cities are _weird_ 🤷‍♂️ I find it hilarious that [London](https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/65606) has a tiny [London](https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/51800) carved out of the middle of it. Some kind of hipster London (this little London was the real London before it got big)? Or maybe little London was first, and it filled up, but people still wanted to say they lived in London so they made it bigger but then the people that lived in little London got _very_ upset and demanded that they be left out of big London? Or the person who made the first map marked out little London and then people noticed that they missed _all this other London_ but they were working with ink so they couldn’t erase little London so they just had to draw out big London around it, thereby excluding little London? Were they invited to parties after that screwup? ---
**Author:** ![8f7162110d9eeaf907ab](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/8/ad7895/32.png) [@8f7162110d9eeaf907ab](https://community.citystrides.com/u/8f7162110d9eeaf907ab)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/11 "2019-10-01T14:08:58Z")
The City of London has broadly the same boundaries as the roman settlement of Londonium, so it has been around for a while! Nowadays, it is essentially the financial district of London and has some pretty unique features, such as giving businesses based there votes in elections, having its own police force, and maintaining a level of medieval pageantry totally at odds with how modern everything else there is. It’s a weird and wonderful place. ---
**Author:** ![stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/stewartharding1/32/387_2.png) [@stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/stewartharding1)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/12 "2019-10-01T14:22:14Z")
Great video to explain it: [The (Secret) City of London: History Edition - YouTube](https://youtu.be/LrObZ_HZZUc) ---
**Author:** ![chriskeene](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/chriskeene/32/739_2.png) [@chriskeene](https://community.citystrides.com/u/chriskeene)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 3:50pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/13 "2019-10-01T15:50:14Z")
Hi, Brighton and Hove - a city / Unitarian authority, which as per the OSM docs is level 6, is not currently showing for me. > **[OpenStreetMap](https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id&relation=131295#map=16/50.8453/-0.1306)** > > OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license. Thanks Chris (apologies if this is the wrong place to put it) ---
**Author:** ![jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/f1d935/32.png) [@jessp](https://community.citystrides.com/u/jessp)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/14 "2019-10-01T19:29:11Z")
I’d love to know what the Romans would say about you calling their important port city of Londinium ‘hipster London’ 😆 But yes, essentially it was the real London back in the day! There’s actually a little bit of the original city wall left, which was built in about 220 AD. There are quite a few places in central London where modern sits side-by-side with centuries old, but it’s particularly striking in the City. It’s a fun place to wander around, especially at the weekends when there aren’t so many people around. ---
**Author:** ![stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/stewartharding1/32/387_2.png) [@stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/stewartharding1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/15 "2019-10-02T15:48:57Z")
So for Wales, I agree with @jessp above and would include Welsh areas at level 10. However, if possible I would ask for Cardiff at level 6 to also be included as it’s the only one of the local authorities that would be runnable (although a challenge) and just about makes sense as a single area. Others such as Swansea, Newport and Bridgend contain the urban centres, but also rural areas and whole other towns and villages. I feel it’s a shame that places such as the city of Swansea won’t be included, but as the city and the county are technically one and the same I don’t know how you’d separate them or even if there is an official ‘city’ border within the broader area. This is an excellent update and I appreciate all your hard work and attention to detail! ---
**Author:** ![JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/jameschevalier/32/2_2.png) [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 4:32pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/16 "2019-10-02T16:32:23Z")
No problem including Cardiff. 👍 I can also include Swansea, Newport and Bridgend - not a huge amount of work (famous last words). It does look like there are some admin level 10 places within Swansea, like [Rhossili](https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1402769) - should those be included? ---
**Author:** ![stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/stewartharding1/32/387_2.png) [@stewartharding1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/stewartharding1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/17 "2019-10-02T16:46:19Z")
Sorry, I was unclear. I don’t think Swansea, Newport and Bridgend should be included because of those large rural areas. I’m not sure choosing which level 10 areas make up a larger town/city would work as it could be a bit arbitrary and one of those things that locals would all have a different opinion on which ones should be included. ---
**Author:** ![mikehaworth](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/mikehaworth/32/176_2.png) [@mikehaworth](https://community.citystrides.com/u/mikehaworth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 5:43pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/18 "2019-10-03T17:43:33Z")
So does this mean we get the small areas of Cardiff as their own cities and Cardiff as a whole? Originally I would have said to just have Cardiff as a whole, but since the upgrade I’ve been loving having the smaller areas. It’s helped me focus and I would love for them to stay, but have an overarching city too please. ---
**Author:** ![rst20xx](https://community.citystrides.com/user_avatar/community.citystrides.com/rst20xx/32/412_2.png) [@rst20xx](https://community.citystrides.com/u/rst20xx)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/19 "2019-10-06T21:08:44Z")
Hello, just to add to this: I agree with the suggestion higher up of including UK places at level 8 and level 10 (plus maybe some custom level 6 mixed in). Level 8 ie borough/county-level is still pretty large. My London borough has 1,500 streets in it, which is not impossible, but is much bigger than most places seem to be in the United States or Europe. Level 10 (ward-level) seems to be more comparable. I wouldn’t mind having both 8 and 10 available simultaneously, where I live. In fact I think it’d be all the better for it. It’d give me micro-targets of completing individual wards plus a macro-target of copleting the whole borough… ---
**Author:** ![nodds77](https://community.citystrides.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/n/c6cbf5/32.png) [@nodds77](https://community.citystrides.com/u/nodds77)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452/20 "2019-10-07T21:09:46Z")
More strangeness! None of Scotland’s 7 cities appear (Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling, Perth,Inverness). Neither do any of the towns I’ve searched for (Falkirk, Dunfermline, Hamilton, Glenrothes). The good news is that my ward area for Edinburgh shows as I’d expect it to Cheers Nodds [Next page](https://community.citystrides.com/t/united-kingdom-has-some-more-cities-at-different-levels/18452.md?page=2)