# Permissive vs. private streets
**URL:** https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289
**Category:** Support
**Created:** [July 15, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289 "2020-07-15T19:01:14Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@tennistowel](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tennistowel)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 7:01pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/1 "2020-07-15T19:01:14Z")
Recently signed up to OSM, and have a quick question regarding “correct” tagging:
In my city we have a sort of “outdoor museum” which has some “streets”. Since it’s a pay-to-enter place where it wouldn’t be appropriate to run, I’d like to tag these streets out of CityStrides. Would “permissive” be both correct, and remove them from CityStrides, or do I need to tag them as “private”?
Thanks!
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/2 "2020-07-15T19:12:52Z")
I’m asking about this in the OSMUS Slack group: [OpenStreetMap Chat](https://community.citystrides.com/t/openstreetmap-chat/18484)
Can you share a link to one or two of the streets in question within CityStrides?
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/3 "2020-07-15T19:29:46Z")
The end result of the conversation (assuming it doesn’t continue further) is that `fee` and/or `toll` would be helpful tags here.
> If general public has no right to enter there, but is currently allowed then `access=permissive` (or `foot=permissive``vehicle=private` ) would fit well.
> `access=permit` is another option for the streets, but `fee` and/or `toll` sound particularly attractive, b/c general-purpose routers already know what to do w/ these tags (not sure about CityStrides however).
> `access=permit` seems to be for cases where you need to acquire permit (not just buy a ticket), but place is still available to allmaybe `access=customers` ?
I’m happy to adjust my Overpass query to account for fee/toll tags.
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### Author:  [@tennistowel](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tennistowel)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:02pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/4 "2020-07-15T20:02:49Z")
> **[CityStrides](https://citystrides.com/)**
>
> CityStrides helps you run every single street of your city
> **[CityStrides](https://citystrides.com/)**
>
> CityStrides helps you run every single street of your city
Those are two examples 🙂
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### Author:  [@tennistowel](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tennistowel)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/5 "2020-07-15T20:06:26Z")
No vehicles allowed in at all. Sounds like `access=fee` (if I’m reading your message right) would be both accurate, and something that can work with CityStrides.
Thank you!
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/6 "2020-07-15T20:12:45Z")
Looks like I can add these filters to my Overpass query to remove all fee/toll roads.
`['access' !~ 'fee'];`
`['access' !~ 'toll'];`
🤔 Just have to think about whether this will have adverse effects. I suppose it would be limited to foot-accessible (so, not a highway/interstate) roads that you have to pay to drive, but are perfectly free to walk. I can’t imagine there are many/any of these…
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/7 "2020-07-15T20:19:37Z")
Someone else is chiming in that `access=customers` might be better.
It does have a wiki page: [Tag:access=customers - OpenStreetMap Wiki](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dcustomers)
whereas the toll & fee tags don’t (as far as I can tell)
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### Author:  [@tennistowel](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tennistowel)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/8 "2020-07-15T20:20:00Z")
I don’t know if that would be an issue with things like American national parks and similar areas?
I’m accessing OSM from my browser (firefox), do you know if I need to add the `fee` tag in the “Allowed access” box, or if I can/should add it as a “free” (?) tag of `access=fee`?
My limited experience with OSM doesn’t help me with whether that would mess things up, or if it is possible to add several tags in that way.
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [July 15, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/9 "2020-07-15T20:21:44Z")
I’m unsure 😬
After reading the wiki for customers - [Tag:access=customers - OpenStreetMap Wiki](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:access%3Dcustomers) - I’m wondering if the tag is `fee=yes`
Ah, I found [Key:fee - OpenStreetMap Wiki](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:fee)
and [Key:toll - OpenStreetMap Wiki](https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:toll)
I’ll update this post if/when people respond to my request for clarification
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### Author:  [@hjkiddk](https://community.citystrides.com/u/hjkiddk)
#### Post date: [July 16, 2020, 12:54pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/10 "2020-07-16T12:54:20Z")
Easy solution is to just pay the entrance fee, and log a walk in Den Gamle By 🙂
I’ve done this with Frilandsmuseet, Tivoli and Zoo in Copenhagen.
I don’t like empty spaces in my map, so if i have to walk to get my purple lines, i will walk 😃
> **[Henrik Johansen - CityStrides](https://citystrides.com/users/2645/)**
>
> CityStrides helps you run every single street of your city
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### Author:  [@tennistowel](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tennistowel)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/11 "2020-07-20T19:07:43Z")
@JamesChevalier :
I added the `fee = yes`.
Can that be added to the CityStrides code? It’s not in the Overpass, from what I can see.
@hjkiddk : But walking would mess with my SmashRun and Strava data 😂
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### Author:  [@hjkiddk](https://community.citystrides.com/u/hjkiddk)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/12 "2020-07-20T19:21:00Z")
Won’t affect your stats if you log it as a walk, but it will still be synced with citystrides.
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### Author:  [@tim1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/tim1)
#### Post date: [August 31, 2020, 3:00pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/13 "2020-08-31T15:00:31Z")
Not sure I see an answer about Foot=Permissive streets. In “Elmbridge” (which I have just got to 100% yeah!) there are quite a way “gated” estates. Not surprisingly these are marked as private on OSM and so generally do not have nodes on CS (apart from a few which marked as open access to all - by mistake which have corrected on OSM). Indeed some of these are always behind a locked gate - especially dead ends and clearly pricate. However there also quite a few “normal” streets where there is no permanent way to stop people entering and there always seems plenty of walkers and indeed runners making use of these streets - some of which actually allow you get “somewhere” as opposed to having to exit where you entered.
From some research I am starting to think that it might be prudent (and possible more accurate) to mark at least the ones that actually connect different entrances as foot=permissive on OSM. Would that actually technically allow them to appear in CS or is it only Foot=Yes ones that count?
Yesterday I covered almost 10K “ticking off” some of these streets in to at least look my Heat Map look more complete. They are ones to the south in my run yesterday where I did the one street I had left in Elmbridge. [Tim Grose's Activity on August 30, 2020 - CityStrides](https://citystrides.com/activities/14849073) A half marathon for one street is a bit of a poor return 🙂
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### Author:  [@mcoleman38](https://community.citystrides.com/u/mcoleman38)
#### Post date: [November 25, 2020, 8:41pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/14 "2020-11-25T20:41:16Z")
Discovered one example… the Itchen Bridge in Southampton has a toll for cars but not people. Is it perhaps common for toll bridges to be accessible for pedestrians in a way that toll roads generally aren’t? It was one of the streets I had completed in Southampton but was dropped when the data was refreshed.
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### Author:  [@ericjrw](https://community.citystrides.com/u/ericjrw)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2020, 12:53pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/15 "2020-11-29T12:53:04Z")
The road to Fort Desoto, in Florida’s Pinellas Co, has a toll for cars, but not bikes or pedestrians. I have walked and biked it, but it does not fall within a city, which is ok, as I walked it long before I learned of CityStrides.
Oh, and there is a toll, as well as a park entrance fee, again for cars, but not pedestrians or bikes.
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### Author:  [@mrquartz7](https://community.citystrides.com/u/mrquartz7)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/16 "2020-11-29T16:38:34Z")
I was intrigued on how this was currently setup in OSM.
The access is set correctly with Toll=yes & Toll:foot=no.
Would just need the query adjusted to take into account of the Toll:foot & would be back to normal 👍
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### Author:  [@hans1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/hans1)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/17 "2021-04-08T15:29:10Z")
Not sure I understand what you say about permissive? To me it sounds like a restricted access, where general public (=striders) are not supposed to enter?
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### Author:  [@JamesChevalier](https://community.citystrides.com/u/JamesChevalier)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/18 "2021-04-08T16:45:22Z")
It’s nuanced… If I’m understanding correctly:
If a place is _technically_ private, but nobody is enforcing that, then it would be permissive. A local-to-me example of that is [Look Park](https://www.lookpark.org/) which allows people to freely walk into the park.
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### Author:  [@hans1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/hans1)
#### Post date: [April 8, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/19 "2021-04-08T18:29:34Z")
Ok, I see. We have this sort of Police academy training ground, with gates and fences, and lots of named, permissive streets. But not sure if the gates are open in daytime, so I have to check if it seems possible to run…
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### Author:  [@hans1](https://community.citystrides.com/u/hans1)
#### Post date: [April 9, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289/20 "2021-04-09T14:43:25Z")
Yes, went back today, gates open, and no signs about restricted access, so I could run all of it. Probably I’ve driven past there during weekend previously, and then gates were closed. So maybe permissive is ok here
[Next page](https://community.citystrides.com/t/permissive-vs-private-streets/21289.md?page=2)